Forum
Porters Expansion
I see this is back in the news at the moment as its been opposed by a multi
millionaire neighbour. On Newtalk ZB this morning most callers were in favor. I bet a lot of people who are multimillionaires today were able to become so because there were no resource consents to bother them in their
day.
Press story [stuff.co.nz]
Castle Hill Ltd, owned by Auckland businesswoman Christine Fernyhough and her author-photographer husband John Bougen, has objected to a proposed plan change that would enable the Porters Ski Area to expand into Craigieburn's Crystal Valley.
The Porters expansion plan includes a 3500-bed alpine village, hot pools, and a 1.8km gondola ski-lift.
Castle Hill's submission to the Selwyn District Council opposes the plan "in its entirety". It said the development would be "dominantly conspicuous" and the area "does not need another partially completed town".
"Why we need to further pollute the pristine land and skyscapes of the Castle Hill basin to service the fickle overseas tourism market for purely commercial gain, especially where the skifield profits will not be retained in the Selwyn District?" it said. Blackfish, which owns the skifield, is mainly Australian-owned.
In other words "I hate everything about the proposal, but mostly that I won't be getting any money from it". It sounds like someone needs some 'consultancy fees', black sports bag, unmarked bills please.
BP will be gutted when he gets this news
you can't do anything these days without lots of people being opposed to it.
Originally posted by: cassinaseems you have failed to understand the article and the processes involved peter. I have predicted this right from the start. Its probably in your best interests to stop talking on subjects you dont understand
BP will be gutted when he gets this news
Originally posted by: cassinajealous much? its not there fault your unemployable. Your constant b1tching and moaning over your financial problems is boring pete, not what a snow forums about
I bet a lot of people who are multimillionaires today were able to become so because there were no resource consents to bother them in their
day.
Originally posted by: Mr. Splodge
you can't do anything these days without lots of people being opposed to it.
Its only 2 people but 2 people with money could equal 1000 greenies without.
Originally posted by: brighton_pumpsOriginally posted by: cassinaseems you have failed to understand the article and the processes involved peter. I have predicted this right from the start. Its probably in your best interests to stop talking on subjects you dont understand
BP will be gutted when he gets this news
Have you become a greenie since the end of the season Alan????
no peter and thinking i have is another sign of your lack of understanding. You wernt one of the smart kids at school were you?
Originally posted by: cassinawho would point out the obvious if cass wasnt here?Originally posted by: Mr. Splodge
you can't do anything these days without lots of people being opposed to it.
Its only 2 people but 2 people with money could equal 1000 greenies without.
..stay tuned for another installment of "Snowco wars"
coming soon....
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FIRST NAMES! INTERNET POWWWWER WORDS~!!!
(Yes, you're both very very scary by calling each other your real names)
i just find it hard to think of somebody named cassina as being male roz.
Originally posted by: Freshie
..stay tuned for another installment of "Snowco wars"
coming soon....
When I brought up his name I had no intention that he would see that, as an attack
on me. Based on how passionite he was about the proposal last year I would have thought if he wanted to attack anyone it would be the greenies rich or poor. A funny
guy you are Alan!!
attack of the snowco clones...coming soon
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Originally posted by: cassinaseeing your lack of education and understanding on display, its not hard to see why peter creagh is unemployable and still lives with his mumOriginally posted by: Freshie
..stay tuned for another installment of "Snowco wars"
coming soon....
When I brought up his name I had no intention that he would see that, as an attack
on me. Based on how passionite he was about the proposal last year I would have thought if he wanted to attack anyone it would be the greenies rich or poor. A funny
guy you are Alan!!
Anyways i'll keep it simple because you really are pretty thick. You said i would be upset about the opposition to the proposal. I tell you i have expected that since day one. please explain how that makes me a green convert? Or maybe admit you misunderstood me and got it wrong yet again
Originally posted by: Freshiewaiting for the return of man
attack of the snowco clones...coming soon
Originally posted by: brighton_pumpsOriginally posted by: Freshiewaiting for the return of man
attack of the snowco clones...coming soon
[/qu
so... what have i missed????
just your partner embarrassing himself again, nothing new
thats a shame.
what you think bp. porters, going ahead or not?
thought they were for sale?
they were for sale about 4 years ago. I'll wait to the selwyn council makes its call on rezoning before i say yes or no. knowing NZs history on these sort of things though, im leaning towards no. its just far too modern and 1st world for nzs snow scene
hmm..im of the opinion Man and BP are one and the same..very suspicious how he/she/it appears suddenly after BP mentioned them
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Really?
Originally posted by: Freshiegood point. 1hour between logins is a dead giveaway
hmm..im of the opinion Man and BP are one and the same..very suspicious how he/she/it appears suddenly after BP mentioned them
hows Bc jaffa?
Just come ski Rua. DOC, Tribes, The man, Drivers, .... object to everything so no point in trying, no worries. Just don't expect to get up there by 11am and make sure you sharpen your ice skates.
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
sounds like ral vs the local tribe all over again except this time at porters. There are millions of untouched peaks in nz, let us have a few with lifts and you can enjoy all the others we don't touch.
jed, it seems more the whaka side get objections to everything, they never seem to have problems doing stuff at turoa just not enough money for a new chair there every summer.
@ Ben: Whaka is in the gift area - ie all the Te Heuheu could see from his side of the hill which didn't include Turoa. But there is a treaty claim in on Turoa so they could be in for more of the same.
Pain about Porters, some friends looking at buying lodge in area and while the summer trade is their main market, Porter's expansion would give them another income stream in winter.
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reine de l'hiver
just an odd coincedence bp..there must be a load of watchers on here
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Did not take long for Ruinpayyou to come up in a thread
Talk is rua is going broke with a short fall of 50,000 skier days for 2010 season and loss of $5million.
Born optimists anyone thinking this mega expansion will happen at Porters and for once BP makes sense. Talk is cheap and there is a lot of talking it up in the NZ ski industry and little actually done.
I seriously doubt that..true they made a loss..and skier with season pass were down from 8-5.5 days. However was always crowded whenever i was there
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Originally posted by: Freshie
I seriously doubt that..true they made a loss..and skier with season pass were down from 8-5.5 days. However was always crowded whenever i was there
When I first went skiing in the early 1990s I was told the average number of skiing
days per person was 10. Due to higher living costs and flat payrates for many I guess the average number of skiing days per person is possibly less today.
Payrates are only flat for the unemployed
^^^^^^^
Originally posted by: cassinaOriginally posted by: Freshie
I seriously doubt that..true they made a loss..and skier with season pass were down from 8-5.5 days. However was always crowded whenever i was there
When I first went skiing in the early 1990s I was told the average number of skiing
days per person was 10. Due to higher living costs and flat payrates for many I guess the average number of skiing days per person is possibly less today.
WTF do you smake dude your a total fruit cake
btw, when I said broke I was talking about a severe cash flow shortage. Kind of thing that would make any investor into a snow development think twice and scare any that may lose out.
Originally posted by: JaffaOriginally posted by: cassinaOriginally posted by: Freshie
I seriously doubt that..true they made a loss..and skier with season pass were down from 8-5.5 days. However was always crowded whenever i was there
When I first went skiing in the early 1990s I was told the average number of skiing
days per person was 10. Due to higher living costs and flat payrates for many I guess the average number of skiing days per person is possibly less today.
WTF do you smake dude your a total fruit cake
btw, when I said broke I was talking about a severe cash flow shortage. Kind of thing that would make any investor into a snow development think twice and scare any that may lose out.
I think your the fruit cake as you fail to see the big picture without sufficiant numbers who can afford to ski cash flow does not happen!!!
most of ushave jobs though cassina. your among the 6%
you can ride the concrete for free if your short on cash And you can do it right now on the off season.
IMO It's disappointing to see the amount of opposition to something that could be really good for the area. NZ needs to sharpen up and allow RESPONSIBLE development, especially in the ski industry. There's a lot of tourist dollars that could be pumped into the area going to waste. It's a little sad to see my home country acting so insular towards foreign investment and not reaching it's potential to be a world leader in southern hemi snowsports.
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Europe 2011 - living the dream
Originally posted by: Ride
IMO It's disappointing to see the amount of opposition to something that could be really good for the area. NZ needs to sharpen up and allow RESPONSIBLE development, especially in the ski industry. There's a lot of tourist dollars that could be pumped into the area going to waste. It's a little sad to see my home country acting so insular towards foreign investment and not reaching it's potential to be a world leader in southern hemi snowsports.
What i think is funny is how its 2 outside investors fighting and the crux of it is the "beauty and essence of the castle hill/craigieburn area"
That said, I 'd like to see them expand if only for the competition aspect and tourist dollars. It doesn't appeal to me at all but i can see the benefits. I've not seen a convincing argument though to show how this won't affect the Porter river given the lie of the valley. Anyone got any details on this?
Originally posted by: Ride
IMO It's disappointing to see the amount of opposition to something that could be really good for the area. NZ needs to sharpen up and allow RESPONSIBLE development, especially in the ski industry. There's a lot of tourist dollars that could be pumped into the area going to waste. It's a little sad to see my home country acting so insular towards foreign investment and not reaching it's potential to be a world leader in southern hemi snowsports.
I think DOC had not said no in the initial application to them hence the optimisim
that I got the impression they had. There has been speculation that the Pike Mine
could have been built safer if it was not for having to meet "Green" requirements.
If this is true it might be the beginning of the end for economic growth constrainment by the Greens/DOC.
Originally posted by: cassina
There has been speculation that the Pike Mine
could have been built safer if it was not for having to meet "Green" requirements.
If this is true it might be the beginning of the end for economic growth constrainment by the Greens/DOC.
Without wanting to state the obvious... DUHHHHH of course you don't get methane explosions in an open-cast coal mine. You just get a f*cking great hole in the ground.
Lol they do get methane explosions at open cast mines......... a mate who works at stockton said they had quite the big one a few months back........
Ok let me re-phrase that. You don't get methane explosions in the mine bit of open-cast mines. You get them in coal seams underground, but that can happen whether or not they're being mined.
But you can't get an explosion in an open-cast mine in the same way that you do with an underground mine because the methane just won't build up to a sufficient level where it's volatile.
However this is entirely off topic anyway...
Interesting, always ironic when opposition comes from millionaire neighbours I find. I do understand the partially completed town sentiment (just look at five mile in Queenstown, or what very nearly happened to Kawarau Falls), but economic concerns are not the issue through the RMA process.
Downsouth raises genuine environmental concerns, these are what are important in this case. Downsouth, if the resource consent application has been lodged, and it is publicly notified, then you should be able to obtain the Environmental Impact Statement (maybe called assessment of environmental effects), that has to outline all possible environmental effects, and detail the applicants strategy for elimination/prevention/mitigation. Generally this is what should be contended by those who oppose the application. If you are really interested, have a look through it and see what you can find. Let me know if you can find it (Selwyn District Council would be the ones to ask) - I'd be keen for a flick through.
In other news, it sounds like NZSki are getting serious about expansion at the Remarkables..!
ST - Heres the details
http://www.selwyn.govt.nz/services/planning/plan-changes/plan-change-25-porter-heights-ski-field/plan-change-25-porter-heights-ski-field2 [selwyn.govt.nz]
Whats the plan with Remarks? Excitement!
let me guess they're recycling an old double chair at remarks?
Originally posted by: southernthrashIts not going to happen bro so relax. This is nz remember. you can only deface the land for farming or subdivision purposes.
Interesting, always ironic when opposition comes from millionaire neighbours I find. I do understand the partially completed town sentiment (just look at five mile in Queenstown, or what very nearly happened to Kawarau Falls), but economic concerns are not the issue through the RMA process.
Downsouth raises genuine environmental concerns, these are what are important in this case. Downsouth, if the resource consent application has been lodged, and it is publicly notified, then you should be able to obtain the Environmental Impact Statement (maybe called assessment of environmental effects), that has to outline all possible environmental effects, and detail the applicants strategy for elimination/prevention/mitigation. Generally this is what should be contended by those who oppose the application. If you are really interested, have a look through it and see what you can find. Let me know if you can find it (Selwyn District Council would be the ones to ask) - I'd be keen for a flick through.
In other news, it sounds like NZSki are getting serious about expansion at the Remarkables..!
what happened at kawarau falls was wrong as well ,but nobody batted an eyelid
"URS New Zealand Limited (URS) was commissioned by Porters Ski Area Limited (PORTERS) to
provide recommendations for the location of a shallow wastewater disposal field in order to ensure
that slope stability adjacent to Crystal Stream and Porter River is not adversely affected by
wastewater flowing out of the slope face. A significant volume of treated wastewater will need to be
disposed of as part of the Porters Expansion Project; a development that includes accommodation,
dining and skiing facilities. A 403,636 m2 area within the Ski Lease Boundary has been defined by
PORTERS as the maximum area available for disposal. We understand that the wastewater will be
discharged to ground using a typical shallow subsurface dripper network consisting of rows of
parallel lines placed at equal spacing of approximately 1 m."
Seepage reports from the main Wastewater disposal document from URS show that this should be ok. Its deemed unlikely that there will be issues with edge stability as long as the setbacks are followed.
Or say maybe there is an alpine fault shake....but thats not likely.....
There has been many rumors about new lifts at remarks for exmaple doolands and out out homeward ways.....
Ill believe any new lifts that open new terrain at remarkables when i see them, my bet is the Tbar at corro will be replaced next.
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Shit happens.
and then they will use all cp's old lifts to "upgrade" the remarks.
what ever happened to the new lift for ohau?
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Shit happens.
Originally posted by: Brad
There has been many rumors about new lifts at remarks for exmaple doolands and out out homeward ways.....
Ill believe any new lifts that open new terrain at remarkables when i see them, my bet is the Tbar at corro will be replaced next.
yep seems like Doolans is a goer, it won't happen overnight, but it looks as though it'll happen. I doubt they'd replace the T-bar, it's ideal in that situation where rocky gully is run as a racing and training area - the ski teams that train there are worth a lot of $$$.
Originally posted by: downsouth
"URS New Zealand Limited (URS) was commissioned by Porters Ski Area Limited (PORTERS) to
provide recommendations for the location of a shallow wastewater disposal field in order to ensure
that slope stability adjacent to Crystal Stream and Porter River is not adversely affected by
wastewater flowing out of the slope face. A significant volume of treated wastewater will need to be
disposed of as part of the Porters Expansion Project; a development that includes accommodation,
dining and skiing facilities. A 403,636 m2 area within the Ski Lease Boundary has been defined by
PORTERS as the maximum area available for disposal. We understand that the wastewater will be
discharged to ground using a typical shallow subsurface dripper network consisting of rows of
parallel lines placed at equal spacing of approximately 1 m."
Seepage reports from the main Wastewater disposal document from URS show that this should be ok. Its deemed unlikely that there will be issues with edge stability as long as the setbacks are followed.
Or say maybe there is an alpine fault shake....but thats not likely.....
That sounds about right, although URS are grade A smack talkers. You'd think consultancies would do a better job as they get larger, certainly not the case.
At a glance, it at least looks as though they have been comprehensive in the scope of what they have considered, which is good.
*edited 04 Jan 2011 09:44
Originally posted by: southernthrashso maybe by 2020 then? how come you dont get upset about new lifts at remarks anyways?Originally posted by: Brad
There has been many rumors about new lifts at remarks for exmaple doolands and out out homeward ways.....
Ill believe any new lifts that open new terrain at remarkables when i see them, my bet is the Tbar at corro will be replaced next.
yep seems like Doolans is a goer, it won't happen overnight, but it looks as though it'll happen. I doubt they'd replace the T-bar, it's ideal in that situation where rocky gully is run as a racing and training area - the ski teams that train there are worth a lot of $$$.
like brad i'll believe it when i see it or read something official, you have spread this rumour before.
if the race teams ask for a new chair to replace the tbar they'l get it, no questions asked
They've let the cat out of the bag on facebook, haha, and most of the staff up there this season seemed to have a pretty good idea of what's in the pipeline. It may well be by 2020, it's not like there is a huge amount of cash flying around for it to be done right away, and it would be a pretty huge project. I don't get upset by new lifts anywhere, by default. Expansion of Porters and expansion of Remarks into Doolans are both good ideas, I just prefer that such plans are well thought out in advance.
Ofcourse, if you suggested we chuck a lift up the NW ridge of Aspiring, or Glacier Dome, or Mt Aylmer from Tas Saddle Hut, then I'd have an issue! But there are plenty of places we can get high lifts in without going into the Central Southern Alps.
There are issues that need to be considered for both Porters and the Remarks, but if the right approach is taken, then both of this projects are achievable.
haha after reading that i think 2020 was being optimistic
sure it'd be nice but im sure they will upgrade all the old fixed grips 1st
There is nothing wrong with old lifts if thsy still work, better to spend the money on expanding than upgrading old lifts. That new meadows chair would have done so much better over the other side of the ridge, would have made such a huge improvement, but no they decide making all the lifts flash is more important.
Same thing at cardies, they upgrade a quad to an express quad which only made the ques worse since everyone gets up the hill faster, sure nice when there is on one there but during school holidays they have some of the worst ques in the country. 40-50min wait sometimes for a 2 min run if you go slow.
And even the position of the ex captain chair is not that great, if you had a buddy it was already 100% skibale to the road and drive back up. Now had the gone of the ridgeline at the top of captain that would have been amazing and give cardies some real advanced terrain.
Then once again at Turoa they just upgrade old lifts rather than putting a new lift somewhere useful as well as putting the drive in about the most useless place for all but the groomed runs, would had been amazing had it been put somewhere out near one of the boundaries, but this is nz they only really care about having flash lifts to great everyone with and give the learners and low intermediates something comfy to ride.
I can see the same thing happening at whaka replace ts with flash chairs which does nothing to opening new terrain and will just clog up the slopes, there are so many place it could go and do much more.
One day maybe the nz ski companies will wake up and start doing more than just upgrading "uncompfy" lifts.
its all about making $$$$ and attracting families and learners. that is the logic behind all the upgrades at both CP and cardies. expanding terrain costs alot in hidden extras. unfortunatly due to the small skier numbers in NZ we will always be the poor cousin of the rest of the world.
I guess some ski areas think about these things, others don't. That's one of the reasons why the base facilities at CP were expanded, to match the lift capacity. Last time I talked to someone up there they said that the lift capacity is about as great as they want given the ski-able area (which I'd agree with) so they are more or less done with lift upgrades etc.
Same at Remarks, I think. Not much point boosting lift capacity in there at the moment, as the terrain is fairly limiting still. Sure, a faster lift in Shadow Basin would be great for getting to the chutes quicker, but the groomers and homeward would just become more crowded.
I'd actually suggest they'd want more terrain before chucking high capacity lifts in, then upgrade the lower lifts to fill the terrain.