Forum
Good bootfitters in Auckland/Hamilton/Ohakune?
Hey all,
I live in Hamilton and am looking to buy a first pair of ski boots, so would like to know where the really good bootfitters are (can't stand the idea of wasting money on boots which aren't right / got pressured into buying because the guy just wanted to get them out the door instead of focusing on getting boots right for me / my feet / etc). Anyone in Hamilton, Auckland or Ohakune (can visit after a day on the snow) would be great. Cheeeeeeeeeeers 
If you want to get fitted in 'Kune try to do it on a midweek afternoon when it's not completely mad and the shop is just trying to get cleared up for the day...
Wayne at RnR in Hamilton or Ben at TCB in Ohakune
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Wait For The Ricochet
I'll give you impartial advice. I'm qualified boot fitter and i don't sell boots, so I have no particular axe to grind.
Edge to Edge
I suspect others on this forum might endorse me, you know who you are!
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One good turn deserves another...
Originally posted by: edgehi
I'll give you impartial advice. I'm qualified boot fitter and i don't sell boots, so I have no particular axe to grind.
Edge to Edge
I suspect others on this forum might endorse me, you know who you are!
Definitely good impartial advice to be found here!
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IT Hack & Genuine NutJob
Originally posted by: edgehi
I'll give you impartial advice. I'm qualified boot fitter and i don't sell boots, so I have no particular axe to grind.
Edge to Edge
I suspect others on this forum might endorse me, you know who you are!
Unless you ask edgehi -Whakapapa vs Turoa ?
Thats when I'm not sure the answer will be impartial. LOL
Sound advice and recomendations here, my 10c worth is do it at the season start rather than end so u are not limited in choice and size availability as well as being able to go back thru the season for 'tweaks'. Popular models can sell out in a season and deals struck at season end can be on items being deleted or just ones that havnt worked in the market.
Just bite the bullet re the price to get the right fit and fitter.
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Go Outside and Play
Originally posted by: fgor
Hey all,
I live in Hamilton and am looking to buy a first pair of ski boots, so would like to know where the really good bootfitters are (can't stand the idea of wasting money on boots which aren't right / got pressured into buying because the guy just wanted to get them out the door instead of focusing on getting boots right for me / my feet / etc). Anyone in Hamilton, Auckland or Ohakune (can visit after a day on the snow) would be great. Cheeeeeeeeeeers
What level skier are you? When I bought my first boots I was a low level intermediate in ability and figured it was best to get the cheapest brand new boots I could find due to not knowing how good at skiing I would eventually get. As I did get better I found these boots packed out and my foot twisted and heel lifted when I turned so it was time to get new boots. I ended up getting advanced/expert boots and found I got 10 years use out of them before the liners
disintergrated. With no longer having any heel lift or foot twist I skied better with fewer falls. I found I did not need a specialist fitter for my boots and any tweaking I was able to do myself except for getting a pressure point blown by a shop.
Cheers for the replies
Impartial advice sounds like the best kind of advice truly, I may follow up on that!
@cassina - I'm not sure how to rate myself in terms of labels like "advanced beginner" "low level intermediate" "solid intermediate" "expert" etc, but I'm cautiously skiing some blues at the moment and gaining confidence each time I go. (Lessons helped, I'd still suck without them :P) I don't know how long a pair of boots I buy in the nearish future should expect to last me - preferably I don't want to buy a pair which I'll "grow out of" ability-wise too fast.
I might wind up buying some at the start of next year to get the full range of models to look at. Really I'd prefer to buy a previous-year model or so to save money, but the market seems too small and it appears everything sells out in a year.
May I ask what is a "good" price for boots? Like what price have people generally wound up paying? Just so I know exactly what to expect x_x I've seen boots for $600 still labelled as only beginner's boots, still seems awfully expensive, but maybe I'm just unused to the costs of this sport...
fgor, take a lunchtime walk and go see Wayne at RnR in Barton Street. Cruise in and have a chat. Tell him honestly where you're at with your skiing. He'll be able to make some recommendations and you can go away and have a think. Next time you're down at Rua's pop in and see Sam at Edge to Edge (at the Skotel, turn left behind the Chateau). Talk to him for a bit and you'll start to get a feeling for what you need
As for price, that varies between brands but $600 isn't expensive (sadly)
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Wait For The Ricochet
*edited 04 Oct 2011 16:45
Whatever you do, do not listen to Cassina and get $1300 race boots. They will only kill your skiing experience as I would imigine you are after more comfort and progression than a boot that kills your feet with ankle breaking flex which will most probably be put to waste.
If you could hold off till next season as Naki said I would. This will give you most choice and sizes so your chances are greater of finding the perfect boot for your foot. Still expect 15-20% off new season stock before the season has even arrived.
Sadly $600 is a bit of a base price in boots however often it is worth the extra dollers you spend. The extra can come in the form of a better, more customisable liner, more heavy duty buckles, replaceable soles, e.t.c...
One thing you may notice in some boots these days is and adjustable flex rating. (flex rating is simply how stiff a boot is to drive forwards and sideways. Latest boots are also more adapt to how skis perform these days than the old straits which means a boot takes into the consideration of rolling the boot over/carving so it is tortionally stiff aswell. However a boot fitter the other day told me of the completely different way different brands rate their "flex")
Taking into consideration your progression, you will notice some boots will have a screw on the back side which can adjust the stiffness of the boot with a simple turn of the screw. This will allow you to progress to a slightly stiffer boot without having to buy a new pair.
Final suggestion is to ignore price, expensive or cheap. Go for the the best fitting boot than the most colourful. Heck, my boots are poo brown all over and look like they are from the 80's yet they fit my foot the best!
EDIT: Make sure the shop offers a guarentee against fitting adjustments. A good shop will allow you to go back and forth till the boot fits perfectly.
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
*edited 04 Oct 2011 17:16
I would expect most boots to cost $600-$1000.
With regards to fit, often you'll get 2 or 3 boots with damn near identical fits in a range (say, $600, $800 and $1000). This allows you to buy according to your budget without compromising fitment. However note that often with higher performance boots you often get nice features like bigger booster straps, moldable liners, vibration absorbtion pads and the such. Unfortunately the performance/feature/cost is always linked, i.e. it's hard to find an relatively expensive, full-featured boot with a flex pattern that suits a newer skier.
It's hard to say whether you'll 'out-ski' a boot. Some people just go and buy a boot that will last them a long time, but it can seriously impact your learning and enjoyment until you're a strong enough skier to drive the boot rather than it driving you. If you get a boot that's too stiff you'll end up skiing very stiff as well, and if you take a hit you're not ready for they'll punish you for it.
On the flipside, getting a boot that's too soft will limit your progression too, as you'll have less control of the ski, less energy transfer, and less support when you need it. When I was fairly new to the sport I bought some fairly newbie level boots and soon found I could almost fold them in half through the ankle. Oops.
Shops will often tell you a boot should last 10 years but that's more or less for the average punter doing maybe 10 days a year. From what I've seen most boots will last you 80-120 days depending how you ski, before the liner is completely shagged and the sole/lugs no longer interface cleanly with your bindings, and the plastic in the supportive areas is turning to rubber it's been flexed so many times. This, also, will vary depending on the cost of the boot.
EDIT: As Jed mentioned, any shop worth it's salt will guarantee the fit and work with you for free to improve it. In fact if they can't make it work they should swap the boots for you. It should be a relatively risk-free process, and if they're at all confident in their boot-fitting ability they'll offer this. It also means they're not going to just cram you into the first boot that feels ok-ish to get a sale and move you on.
Originally posted by: fgor
Cheers for the replies
Impartial advice sounds like the best kind of advice truly, I may follow up on that!
@cassina - I'm not sure how to rate myself in terms of labels like "advanced beginner" "low level intermediate" "solid intermediate" "expert" etc, but I'm cautiously skiing some blues at the moment and gaining confidence each time I go. (Lessons helped, I'd still suck without them :P) I don't know how long a pair of boots I buy in the nearish future should expect to last me - preferably I don't want to buy a pair which I'll "grow out of" ability-wise too fast.
I might wind up buying some at the start of next year to get the full range of models to look at. Really I'd prefer to buy a previous-year model or so to save money, but the market seems too small and it appears everything sells out in a year.
May I ask what is a "good" price for boots? Like what price have people generally wound up paying? Just so I know exactly what to expect x_x I've seen boots for $600 still labelled as only beginner's boots, still seems awfully expensive, but maybe I'm just unused to the costs of this sport...
Its a good idea to get a cheap previous years model if you can but it will be money
down the drain if they are a poor fit and quite often you do not find that out untill you hit the snow sadly. Many shops do not sell race boots and the only thing wrong with them in my opinion is that they are cold due to their thin liners but give you optimum control at any speed and they are adaptable for non race sking. They are not for everyone like the poster above whoes advise to you is based on them finding them too cold possibly or they percieve them as being impossible to ski off a race course for some obscure reason.
So focus on the next level down from a race boot as that was the level boot that I was meaning in my first reply to you These boots would likely cost you about $1000 or more with the exchange rate now heading down. Look for a boot with a 120 flex rating as thats the highest rating for non race boots. Unfortunitly all the built in adjustments as describled by the poster above are not found in all brands
and it would not be a good idea to look for a boot that had a lot of adjustments
if it did not fit very well to begin with. My advise would be to post on here when
you have tried a few on and some of us would be able to explain the technical adjustments that each boot has. Good luck. As a final comment as you get better in ability you will find you like longer lengths of skis as I did and the more advanced or expert a boot is rated the easier you will find longer skis.
It's hard to say whether you'll 'out-ski' a boot. Some people just go and buy a boot that will last them a long time, but it can seriously impact your learning and enjoyment until you're a strong enough skier to drive the boot rather than it driving you. If you get a boot that's too stiff you'll end up skiing very stiff as well, and if you take a hit you're not ready for they'll punish you for it.
On the flipside, getting a boot that's too soft will limit your progression too, as you'll have less control of the ski, less energy transfer, and less support when you need it. When I was fairly new to the sport I bought some fairly newbie level boots and soon found I could almost fold them in half through the ankle. Oops.
Shops will often tell you a boot should last 10 years but that's more or less for the average punter doing maybe 10 days a year. From what I've seen most boots will last you 80-120 days depending how you ski, before the liner is completely shagged and the sole/lugs no longer interface cleanly with your bindings, and the plastic in the supportive areas is turning to rubber it's been flexed so many times. This, also, will vary depending on the cost of the boot.
EDIT: As Jed mentioned, any shop worth it's salt will guarantee the fit and work with you for free to improve it. In fact if they can't make it work they should swap the boots for you. It should be a relatively risk-free process, and if they're at all confident in their boot-fitting ability they'll offer this. It also means they're not going to just cram you into the first boot that feels ok-ish to get a sale and move you on.
When I bought my first pair of advanced/expert boots I was only looking for 2 things no heel lift and no foot twist. When I got up on the mountain I did find the boot too stiff but saw that as being a positive thing as it meant they were not going to pack out like my first boots. To make them feel softer I just loosened the buckles and after a while felt comfortable enough to tighten them. The secret to enjoying expert boots is to carve your turns rather than skid them. It is bettter in my opinion to go stiff rather than soft in a boot as you cannot stiffen a soft boot.
Stiff boots possibly suit tall heavier skiiers which could be a reason why I have taken a liking to them unlike others on this MB. Your first pair of boots may not be a perfect fit but thats all part of the learning curve. Be carefull of shops offering fit gurantees unless you return the boots unused. Some shops will offer a on mountain fit gurantee but they will depreciate the value of them if you want your money back or an exchange.
*edited 04 Oct 2011 23:24
Do NOT listen to anything cowboy charlie says. Once again he wants a beginner in race boots and long stiff skis.
We all know that I can drive skis and boots twice as hard than you already and actually put in some gnar while i'm at it. Same sh1t different day. The thread isn't about what some intermediate-advanced codger called cass claims he can ski, it's about someone stoked to be getting into skiing. I want stiffness in a boot yet the boot actually has to have big absorbtion, radness and freeride characterstics built in. Thats why some Seth Morrison Pro's might just have to join the hands for the hard charging days next season.
fgor wants comfort, performance, progression and enjoyable days on the hill with toasty digits. Excuse me if my presumption is wrong.
EDIT: Don't forget that stiff boots are not designed to ski them with the buckles undone so they feel softer.
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
So many wrong things in Cassina's posts in this thread, it's not funny. Firstly, flex ratings in non race boots do go higher than 120 - I've seen many a freeride boot in the 130-140 range. The Dalbello range comes to mind immediately with their interchangeable tongues. Which brings me on to my next point, some softer boots CAN be stiffened. Additionally, many boots have shims that can be put down the back of the shell to increase resistance against the plastic closing, thereby increasing the perceived stiffness. Also some boots do have adjustable flex through a switch/screw (not exactly sure how these work, or how well they work though).
The logic of getting a stiffer boot than a softer boot as a softer boot cannot be stiffened (already shown to be false) also falls down as the opposite is true - a stiffer boot cannot be made softer. Loosening the buckles just decreases power transfer a hell of a lot as it means that there will be a certain amount of "dead spot" before you actually start to pressure the boot.
And another point on flex; flex rating pretty much means stuff all. It is really only indicative within a brand, and often not even then. For instance, I tried on a pair of something like 130-140 flex boots (as rated by the manufacturer) and found I could bottom them out just as easily as my 5 year old boots with a rating of something stupid like 75 (which was ridiculously soft). However, I could still happily rip carved turns.
Still on the topic of flex, remember that a boot may well flex differently on the mountain compared to the shop - a warm boot generally flexes a reasonable amount more than a cold boot.
The fit "guarantee" we're talking about are adjustments to a boot that already fits pretty damn well - e.g. shell punches/blowouts - NOT a replacement/refund of the boot.
IMO comfort comes first in a boot. I'd rather have a waaay less performing boot that fits well than a boot that transfers all my power to the ski, but my feet are killing me at the end of the day. However, remember that a boot should fit very snug, not like a shoe - should be able to feel your toes on the end of the boot when not flexed, and feel them comes off the end slightly when you do.
Oh and also, unless by chance you have a foot that somehow magically matches the factory footbed in the boot, factor in another $100-140ish (I think) for some custom made/fitted ones as they make one hell of a difference IMO to both fit/comfort and performance.
Ahh yes, must remember footbeds.
Only the cheapest boots actually come with innersoles. If you pull out the innersole in a decent boot you'll find it's usually just a thin piece of junk, it's only really there to let you try the boots on in the shop, as the manufacturer assumes you'll throw it out and get a proper footbed if you're spending >$800 on a boot.
And you could just go to a shoe shop and get some regular innersoles but they'll probably be uncomfortable and unsuited to the particular forces of skiing.
My 2 cents for free (From a non-professional perspective, and someone who has bought new boots in a similar situation).
I've been lucky and had a rather good boot fitting experience. After going into Gordon's in Wellington and discussing with them what type of skiing I was doing, and what I wanted to progress to we started trying on boots. It took a good couple of hours to work out what brand and shell fit me best. While I was investing I also got some custom footbeds made to complete the package.
After riding on the hill for a few days, I went back and discussed pressure points, and where the boot felt sloppy. They applied some padding around the back of the ankle and it was once again up the slopes for testing. Back again and this time it was a boot riser in the bottom to bring my foot up in the boot slightly.
It took a few more vists (all covered by the boot-fit gaurentee), and I have now ended up with a very nice fitting boot that I can happily ski in all day, and also do a fair bit of hiking in too.
So it sounds like you've got the right attitude, talk to people in and around the area (right here is a good place to start), and then once you've got a boot be prepared to start tweaking. I would agree with most people saying that it's better to do it at the beginning of the season as it gives you a lot more 'in boot' time to feel how it works for you.
Also, don't be afraid to talk instructors if you are getting a lesson about how the boot is feeling to you, and how the ski feels through the boot.
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IT Hack & Genuine NutJob
Originally posted by: gurutasker
My 2 cents for free (From a non-professional perspective, and someone who has bought new boots in a similar situation).
I've been lucky and had a rather good boot fitting experience. After going into Gordon's in Wellington and discussing with them what type of skiing I was doing, and what I wanted to progress to we started trying on boots. It took a good couple of hours to work out what brand and shell fit me best. While I was investing I also got some custom footbeds made to complete the package.
After riding on the hill for a few days, I went back and discussed pressure points, and where the boot felt sloppy. They applied some padding around the back of the ankle and it was once again up the slopes for testing. Back again and this time it was a boot riser in the bottom to bring my foot up in the boot slightly.
It took a few more vists (all covered by the boot-fit gaurentee), and I have now ended up with a very nice fitting boot that I can happily ski in all day, and also do a fair bit of hiking in too.
So it sounds like you've got the right attitude, talk to people in and around the area (right here is a good place to start), and then once you've got a boot be prepared to start tweaking. I would agree with most people saying that it's better to do it at the beginning of the season as it gives you a lot more 'in boot' time to feel how it works for you.
Also, don't be afraid to talk instructors if you are getting a lesson about how the boot is feeling to you, and how the ski feels through the boot.
I took a different approach in that I went around every shop in town and prior to
doing that read some books about what to look for when boot shopping and the aim was to find a boot that required the least amount of tweaking from what I read in the book. What I found was there was only one brand that offered a near perfect fit in the whole of Christchurch so dont limit yourself to just one shop no matter how good the bootfitter sounds. One thing I found with shops in general is that they will try and steer you in the direction of gear that you will enjoy on your first day and grow out of as you get better so you end up buying again next season and remember once being told I was too old for some skis I was interested in but I bought them anyway.
Originally posted by: cassina
One thing I found with shops in general is that they will try and steer you in the direction of gear that you will enjoy on your first day and grow out of as you get better so you end up buying again next season and remember once being told I was too old for some skis I was interested in but I bought them anyway.
Once again, I think you will find that your opinions differ with people on this board.
I have been on this gear for my second season, and in that time my skiing has grown immensely and the gear has been more than suitable.
The problem with shopping around a large amount of stores is that you may not spend enough time with a boot fitter for them to get to know what your fit is. The store I worked with even offered to get in other boots free of charge if they didn't have models in stock that were suitable. In the end, they are the professionals, and while researching yourself does provide you some information, it doesn't replace the years of experience that they have had.
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IT Hack & Genuine NutJob
fgor: As you can see gear selection is always a hot topic of discussion amongst snow users!
In the end, remember that it's you that are using the gear, not anyone else. So find what works for you, not what worked for someone else 
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IT Hack & Genuine NutJob
[
The logic of getting a stiffer boot than a softer boot as a softer boot cannot be stiffened (already shown to be false) also falls down as the opposite is true - a stiffer boot cannot be made softer. Loosening the buckles just decreases power transfer a hell of a lot as it means that there will be a certain amount of "dead spot" before you actually start to pressure the boot.
And another point on flex; flex rating pretty much means stuff all. It is really only indicative within a brand, and often not even then. For instance, I tried on a pair of something like 130-140 flex boots (as rated by the manufacturer) and found I could bottom them out just as easily as my 5 year old boots with a rating of something stupid like 75 (which was ridiculously soft). However, I could still happily rip carved turns.
Still on the topic of flex, remember that a boot may well flex differently on the mountain compared to the shop - a warm boot generally flexes a reasonable amount more than a cold boot.
The fit "guarantee" we're talking about are adjustments to a boot that already fits pretty damn well - e.g. shell punches/blowouts - NOT a replacement/refund of the boot.
IMO comfort comes first in a boot. I'd rather have a waaay less performing boot that fits well than a boot that transfers all my power to the ski, but my feet are killing me at the end of the day. However, remember that a boot should fit very snug, not like a shoe - should be able to feel your toes on the end of the boot when not flexed, and feel them comes off the end slightly when you do.
Oh and also, unless by chance you have a foot that somehow magically matches the factory footbed in the boot, factor in another $100-140ish (I think) for some custom made/fitted ones as they make one hell of a difference IMO to both fit/comfort and performance.
Have never heard of boot "stiffening" kits or are they a home made mod that you
or your boot fitter uses. I note you dont mention any brands that can be stiffened
and is the stiffening covered by the manufacturers warranty? As for skiing with buckles loosened another poster said in instructor courses they expect you to be able to do this as so there is no danger in doing it while getting the feel of a stiff boot. It has worked for me. The other poster has said for him to be skiing stiff race type boots his feet would be killing him at the end of the day and just because he does not feel comfortable in them it does not mean everyone else does.
All the comment from others about getting a lot of tweaking done should be avoided by trying to get as best fit as possible without it
Originally posted by: cassina
All the comment from others about getting a lot of tweaking done should be avoided by trying to get as best fit as possible without it
I think if you re-read everyones statements, they have been talking about adjusting a boot once the best fit has been found, not trying to compensate for a bad fit. So please put your troll hat back in the cupboard on this one.
Everyones feet are different, so of course some adjustment could be expected on almost any foot.
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IT Hack & Genuine NutJob
Originally posted by: gurutaskerOriginally posted by: cassina
One thing I found with shops in general is that they will try and steer you in the direction of gear that you will enjoy on your first day and grow out of as you get better so you end up buying again next season and remember once being told I was too old for some skis I was interested in but I bought them anyway.
Once again, I think you will find that your opinions differ with people on this board.
I have been on this gear for my second season, and in that time my skiing has grown immensely and the gear has been more than suitable.
The problem with shopping around a large amount of stores is that you may not spend enough time with a boot fitter for them to get to know what your fit is. The store I worked with even offered to get in other boots free of charge if they didn't have models in stock that were suitable. In the end, they are the professionals, and while researching yourself does provide you some information, it doesn't replace the years of experience that they have had.
Your experience has been a lucky one by the sound of it and even if they can get different models in for you to try they will still be limited by the brands they have the agency for so I stand by my recomendation to shop around. Often second hand boots could be available to demo from some shops to aid the purchasing decision if a stiffer boot is being considered.
Originally posted by: gurutaskerOriginally posted by: cassina
All the comment from others about getting a lot of tweaking done should be avoided by trying to get as best fit as possible without it
I think if you re-read everyones statements, they have been talking about adjusting a boot once the best fit has been found, not trying to compensate for a bad fit. So please put your troll hat back in the cupboard on this one.
Everyones feet are different, so of course some adjustment could be expected on almost any foot.
I just found that the guys comment about all the high tech tweaking that can be done would be seen as quite baffling by the guy wanting to buy hence my emphasis on getting a boot that fits so well it needs little tweaking. At this point he has possibly been baffled by both my and opposing commentators posts but mine are based on 20 years skiing/gear buying experience. As I said I sugessted that he try some boots on and let us know what fits him best and we can explain what tweaking features the boots have if he needs them. I noticed the tweaking "expert" overlooked canting in a boot so he does certainly not know it all.
Originally posted by: cassina
Have never heard of boot "stiffening" kits or are they a home made mod that you or your boot fitter uses. I note you dont mention any brands that can be stiffened
and is the stiffening covered by the manufacturers warranty? As for skiing with buckles loosened another poster said in instructor courses they expect you to be able to do this as so there is no danger in doing it while getting the feel of a stiff boot. It has worked for me. The other poster has said for him to be skiing stiff race type boots his feet would be killing him at the end of the day and just because he does not feel comfortable in them it does not mean everyone else does.
All the comment from others about getting a lot of tweaking done should be avoided by trying to get as best fit as possible without it
As stated in that very post you commented on, the Dalbello 3 pieces (and other brands which offer 3 piece designs such as Full Tilt) have interchangeable tongues. These come in different stiffness, ranging between (for Dalbello ratings) 100-110 to 130-140 with a couple in between. My Dalbellos came with two sets of tongues, one softer and one medium.
My Dalbello boots also came with the shims that go down the back of the boot to make it harder to close the plastic around the back of the boot whilst flexing, which makes the boot ski stiffer. I'm pretty sure that Tecnica and a few other boot companies offer this too (and many companies provide further stuff to tweak your boot such as canting and forward lean adjustments).
Additionally some boots (can't remember the brands) do have inbuilt adjustments to stiffen/soften the flex. This comes in various designs such as switches or screws. I haven't used any of these boots myself before so I can't comment on how well these designs work, but I do know that they do exist.
To address another point of yours the person who you refer to who was told that skiing with the boots undone was a training drill used in some instructors courses (and also in various lessons) was told by me. The entire purpose of the drill is to make sure that you are not relying on your gear to help you to ski. In other words, you have to balance yourself, rather than have your boots hold you up, and so that you can actually pressure and steer your skis without the need to rely on your equipment.
Also I never stated that skiing with buckles undone is dangerous (although, depending on your boot design, such as 3 pieces, it can be extremely dangerous if you get too far forward as the liner can come away from the shell, sending a runaway ski down the mountain with additional mass and no brake, and you most likely bailing). It is, however, not ideal in any way to ski with your buckles undone. I would say in the large majority of cases (changing mostly due to boot design), a soft boot buckled up would transfer more power/energy to the ski than a stiff boot with buckles undone.
Wow, this thread has turned into a goldmine of information and experiences. Plus it looks like I've started a bit of a war :P I don't have much time to tap out much of a reply right now but two things:
- i took a visit to R&R at lunch time (which I have been in before to buy other things. five minutes walk from my work, nice.), Wayne wasn't there at the time but someone else showed me a Nordica Sportmachine 65 in my size and going up in price (other boots they had that I took a quick gander at were Salomon Divine 5 and Salomon Divine RS CF or something, can't remember the letters off the top of my head). No idea how boots are meant to feel apart from "snug" though. The nordica had more forward lean than rentals I've been in. I commented on this and shop dude said it increased balance / put your weight where it should be / etc. True?
Though I am thinking more and more that I'll probably wind up buying something at the start of next season, when shops have a full stock, and hopefully I'll be able to hit up some pre-season deals or something. still useful to know what's out there!
- regarding stiffness/flex/etc - just to perhaps put this to rest a bit - I am only 5'3" and not much over 50kg so quite aside from anything else, I think the stiffest boot money can buy would feel like concrete against my shins, as I just don't have much leverage going on :P I don't know what /is/ a good amount of flex of course, but I'm sure I'll figure it out. It sounds like it's not the most important thing anyway, compared to things like FIT.
My Dalbello boots also came with the shims that go down the back of the boot to make it harder to close the plastic around the back of the boot whilst flexing, which makes the boot ski stiffer. I'm pretty sure that Tecnica and a few other boot companies offer this too (and many companies provide further stuff to tweak your boot such as canting and forward lean adjustments).
Additionally some boots (can't remember the brands) do have inbuilt adjustments to stiffen/soften the flex. This comes in various designs such as switches or screws. I haven't used any of these boots myself before so I can't comment on how well these designs work, but I do know that they do exist.
To address another point of yours the person who you refer to who was told that skiing with the boots undone was a training drill used in some instructors courses (and also in various lessons) was told by me. The entire purpose of the drill is to make sure that you are not relying on your gear to help you to ski. In other words, you have to balance yourself, rather than have your boots hold you up, and so that you can actually pressure and steer your skis without the need to rely on your equipment.
Also I never stated that skiing with buckles undone is dangerous (although, depending on your boot design, such as 3 pieces, it can be extremely dangerous if you get too far forward as the liner can come away from the shell, sending a runaway ski down the mountain with additional mass and no brake, and you most likely bailing). It is, however, not ideal in any way to ski with your buckles undone. I would say in the large majority of cases (changing mostly due to boot design), a soft boot buckled up would transfer more power/energy to the ski than a stiff boot with buckles undone.
I only advocated skiing with the boots unbuckled/loosened as a means of offsetting any feeling of stiffness when skiing in them on day one as why waste a whole valuable skiing day not being able to ski them as I am, sure many people do when their new boots are dont feel right on the first run. After a few hours I felt comfortable enough to do them up. My posts are based on my experience and others may feel different but I am not sure if their comments are based on experience like mine are. As I dont buy boots that frequently I am not familiar with the latest stiffening technoloy. Flex ratings have only been in over the last
4 or 5 years and would be a mystery to many people as its not something like foot length that can be measured in the shop. I am lucky to be able to know a flex rating that fits my skis and ability so dont need to bother with tweaking kits for
stiffness. Forward Lean is another thing that can be tweaked by removing the cuff spoiler for a more upright stance. It has been said that boot fitting is a science but if you have an ability to think oiutside the square there is a lot you can do yourself too.
Originally posted by: fgor
- regarding stiffness/flex/etc - just to perhaps put this to rest a bit - I am only 5'3" and not much over 50kg
Your about the same as me then. As I said, work out what is best for you and the type of skiing you want to do.
As a comparison, I ended up with some Nordica SportMachine 90's. But I may be doing quite different things to you on the mountain
As for how a boot should 'feel' and the comments around where it places your weight, I will leave that for the more experienced on the board to respond.. although it may spark another long discussion regarding ski technique
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IT Hack & Genuine NutJob
*edited 05 Oct 2011 16:21
Originally posted by: cassina
My posts are based on my experience and others may feel different but I am not sure if their comments are based on experience like mine are. As I dont buy boots that frequently I am not familiar with the latest stiffening technoloy. Flex ratings have only been in over the last
4 or 5 years and would be a mystery to many people as its not something like foot length that can be measured in the shop. I am lucky to be able to know a flex rating that fits my skis and ability so dont need to bother with tweaking kits for
stiffness. Forward Lean is another thing that can be tweaked by removing the cuff spoiler for a more upright stance. It has been said that boot fitting is a science but if you have an ability to think oiutside the square there is a lot you can do yourself too.
Once again, your post is based on the 90's. A boot has to be twaekable as you forgot a very important fact. Often someones left foot can be different than their right as in my instance.
Seths and High end Dalbellos have similar flex ratings to a high spec'd race boot but boots like the Seth also have a power wrapped liner that adds extra stifness.
Just wait till next season when Rozzi releases the Squadron on top of the beefed up S7, the Super 7...Whats the bet you will lecture us how a GS ski will still be better and the bees knees. Sadly for you, internet forum hero skills will not cut the mustard.
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
Originally posted by: cassina
Flex ratings have only been in over the last
4 or 5 years and would be a mystery to many people as its not something like foot length that can be measured in the shop. I am lucky to be able to know a flex rating that fits my skis and ability so dont need to bother with tweaking kits for
stiffness. Forward Lean is another thing that can be tweaked by removing the cuff spoiler for a more upright stance. It has been said that boot fitting is a science but if you have an ability to think oiutside the square there is a lot you can do yourself too.
Apparently flex ratings are still a mystery to you. As I and other people in this thread and other places on this board have said flex ratings mean stuff all by themselves. For instance I've had/looked at/tried boots with a rating of 130 which have flexed waaaay easier/more/skied softer than ones that were rated at 110. It all depends on how the rating is measured by the manufacturer for that particular boot, as well as other things to consider within the design of the boot.
I personally think being able to make very quick tweaks to my boot is great (such as forward lean, the shim thing down the back of the boot, interchangeable tongues etc). It all depends on the skiing I'm going to do during the day - High speed carving warrants different setup to a laid back day, which warrants yet a different setup to teaching never evers, or a powder day or park/freestyle etc etc etc. Many people change their skis for different days/conditions, why not boots? (although boots often allow for more adjustment, so less need for multiple pairs) A different type of skiing for me means a slightly different setup will be more comfortable.
fgor, as far as forward lean goes it is a personal thing IMO, and also depends on the type of skiing and aggressiveness of the skiing you are doing. As far as "increased balance / put your weight where it should be" goes, it depends pretty much on you, and you alone - your body is different from everyone elses, and therefore how much ankle flex is appropriate for you is different from the appropriate amount for someone else. More forward lean may put some people into a better position, but others into a worse position. Also remember that there are two other joints that can send you too far back/forward (knees and hips).
Sportmachine 65 in my size and going up in price (other boots they had that I took a quick gander at were Salomon Divine 5 and Salomon Divine RS CF or something, can't remember the letters off the top of my head). No idea how boots are meant to feel apart from "snug" though. The nordica had more forward lean than rentals I've been in. I commented on this and shop dude said it increased balance / put your weight where it should be / etc. True?
Though I am thinking more and more that I'll probably wind up buying something at the start of next season, when shops have a full stock, and hopefully I'll be able to hit up some pre-season deals or something. still useful to know what's out there!
- regarding stiffness/flex/etc - just to perhaps put this to rest a bit - I am only 5'3" and not much over 50kg so quite aside from anything else, I think the stiffest boot money can buy would feel like concrete against my shins, as I just don't have much leverage going on :P I don't know what /is/ a good amount of flex of course, but I'm sure I'll figure it out. It sounds like it's not the most important thing anyway, compared to things like FIT.
I can relate exactly your concern about the boot you tried having too much forward lean as I found that too even with my expert/race boots. Just check that the spoiler on the cuff can be removed and you will be able to stand more upright.
Be prepaired to experiment rather than just take the salespersons view of how the boot should be tweaked as he would be speaking from the way he has his set up
and he likes forward lean by the sound of it. As you weigh about half what I do and are a lot shorter it would be recomended that a much softer flex than the 130
that I like would be right for you and the 65 flex would sound about right from a weight and height perspective although to get a boot to progress into if you can find a boot that fits, look to get one that can be stiffened like the other poster said. When looking at fit make sure you heel can not be lifted up when you buckle the boot up and that your foot can not twist sideways and the issue with non expert/race boots is that over time the liners compress and will become loose. Some simple tweaking I do to improve the fit is to put a thin layer of foam/rubber or even cardboard under your footbed to raise your foot slightly in the boot and have a wedge inserted in the heel area to raise it slightly to give a snug fit. Your toes don't need to touch the tip of the liner as long as your foot can not twist sideways even slightly.
Even if the boots you buy are not a 100% perfect fit and flex you will become more expert in appraising choices when you buy your second pair and I consider that I just got lucky with my decision to skip intermediate boots and buy expert ones but
my weight and height was possibly a more favourable thing than my skiing ability.
@ Triple square- Just look at some of those Atomic/Rozzi boots with rubber in the sides of the shell yet they still are claiming 130 flex in some of them while they bend easy peasy.
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
It all depends on how the rating is measured by the manufacturer for that particular boot, as well as other things to consider within the design of the boot.
I personally think being able to make very quick tweaks to my boot is great (such as forward lean, the shim thing down the back of the boot, interchangeable tongues etc). It all depends on the skiing I'm going to do during the day - High speed carving warrants different setup to a laid back day, which warrants yet a different setup to teaching never evers, or a powder day or park/freestyle etc etc etc. Many people change their skis for different days/conditions, why not boots? (although boots often allow for more adjustment, so less need for multiple pairs) A different type of skiing for me means a slightly different setup will be more comfortable.
fgor, as far as forward lean goes it is a personal thing IMO, and also depends on the type of skiing and aggressiveness of the skiing you are doing. As far as "increased balance / put your weight where it should be" goes, it depends pretty much on you, and you alone - your body is different from everyone elses, and therefore how much ankle flex is appropriate for you is different from the appropriate amount for someone else. More forward lean may put some people into a better position, but others into a worse position. Also remember that there are two other joints that can send you too far back/forward (knees and hips).
Yes flex ratings are a mystery as the first 2 pairs of "expert" boots I bought I bought on fit alone and did not have ratings. When flex ratings came out i saw a pair of boots labeled Race with a flex of 130 on sale so when checking them out I stood with one foot in the race and one foot in my non race labeled boot and did not notice any difference in flex. My attraction to the race boot was because they were a wider fit than my old boots and more comfortable and I was curious to see what a race boot actually felt like.
When I skied on them I noticed no difference in flex with my old boots and no foot
pain or shin pain which others on this MB have experienced or percieve. The only thing I do not endorse them for is warmth but the superior control they give is worth it in my opinion. I did notice there was too much forward lean which was fixed by removing the spoiler and no vibration damping which I fixed by fitting a "SofSole" under the foot bed.I was lucky to buy a half size bigger to be able to do this.
So I now know my flex and do know that one flex in one brand is not the same as the same rated flex in another so will be limited to the different brand that I bought due to offering a wider fit.
I have not considered skiing different boots for different snow conditions but I do with skis. Expert/Race boots have 100 percent versitility for me but that might be because I am tall and heavy too. Perhaps if I was skiing with others with less ability I would choose warmer boots.
Originally posted by: edgehi
I'll give you impartial advice. I'm qualified boot fitter and i don't sell boots, so I have no particular axe to grind.
Edge to Edge
I suspect others on this forum might endorse me, you know who you are!
Do you fit snowboard boots as well? I stupidly bought some a couple of years ago from the Snowcentre. One of the dumbest things I've ever done. They had no idea why they hurt me and didn't try and fix it.
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Why do you call them just "expert" boots when you talk them up to everyone no matter what their ability? Never heard of a such thing as an "experts only" boot/ski till you chirped up. Theres beginner, intermidiate and advanced/expert (they are always one of the same). Although, this don't really mean didly squat as every brand is different and a persons physical attributes have a huge affect on gear choice, not some words. Then don't forget the technologies that have exploded gears versitility to shread anything...
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
Flex ratings, forward lean, stiffness, spoilers, chuffs, shims – hell guys. I don’t think that fgor is preparing for the next winter Olympics.
Unless fgor is an advanced intermediate – expert skier all these terms will make or mean diddly squat.
If this is the first pair of purchased boots after learning on rentals then comfort has to be the key requirement. It doesn’t about any of the above terms. If your feet feel like shi@e after a couple of hours on the mountain, then your enjoyment of the day will be poor.
I’m only a slow old corduroy cruiser and have had only 3 pairs of boots but here is my 2 penny’s worth.
Ski Boots 1 - $500.00
Firm fit – sore shins – getting cramp in toes – not happy
Ski Boots 2 - $750.00
Better, but left foot getting cramped – feet getting wet – 10 days of skiing in Queenstown and got athlete’s feet due to all the moisture – left big toe getting bruised and losing the toe nail every season for the next four seasons – advised by daughter (nurse) that if this keeps happening I would probably lose the nail permanently. Not happy. These boots are not coming to Canada with me.
Ski Boots 3 - $1050.00 Nordica Speedmachine 12 with foot beds fitted by Ben at TBC in Kune
Ben spent 1.5 hours fitting me – found that my left foot was considerably larger than my right.
Fitted a thinner liner into the left boot to match my larger foot.
These boots have now been with me for 3 seasons. I clip them up at 8.00 in the morning and I do not release them until the end of the day. Beautiful – no pain – no more bruised toe - very happy.
Dam ski boots are so expensive. You could hardly find a snowboard boot for $500 let along $1000.
Originally posted by: ShreddingBen
Dam ski boots are so expensive. You could hardly find a snowboard boot for $500 let along $1000.
Yeah but they don't last as long, and snowboard bindings are really dear too, for what they are, or so it seems to me.
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Originally posted by: Hoppynaki
Flex ratings, forward lean, stiffness, spoilers, chuffs, shims – hell guys. I don’t think that fgor is preparing for the next winter Olympics.
Unless fgor is an advanced intermediate – expert skier all these terms will make or mean diddly squat.
If this is the first pair of purchased boots after learning on rentals then comfort has to be the key requirement. It doesn’t about any of the above terms. If your feet feel like shi@e after a couple of hours on the mountain, then your enjoyment of the day will be poor.
I’m only a slow old corduroy cruiser and have had only 3 pairs of boots but here is my 2 penny’s worth.
Ski Boots 1 - $500.00
Firm fit – sore shins – getting cramp in toes – not happy
Ski Boots 2 - $750.00
Better, but left foot getting cramped – feet getting wet – 10 days of skiing in Queenstown and got athlete’s feet due to all the moisture – left big toe getting bruised and losing the toe nail every season for the next four seasons – advised by daughter (nurse) that if this keeps happening I would probably lose the nail permanently. Not happy. These boots are not coming to Canada with me.
Ski Boots 3 - $1050.00 Nordica Speedmachine 12 with foot beds fitted by Ben at TBC in Kune
Ben spent 1.5 hours fitting me – found that my left foot was considerably larger than my right.
Fitted a thinner liner into the left boot to match my larger foot.
These boots have now been with me for 3 seasons. I clip them up at 8.00 in the morning and I do not release them until the end of the day. Beautiful – no pain – no more bruised toe - very happy.
While you say you found more comfort in the most expensive pair of boots after assistance from the bootfitter I would have to disagree that cheaper ones offer less comfort and it sounds like your cheaper boots were bought in a size too small. While it may sound odd for me to endorse the opposite type of boot that I have been promoting in my case I went expensive because I wanted better control
rather than comfort. I agree with you that the fgor would find the ramble about complex (to him) tweakable features in a boot mind boggling and I suggested he try and find the best fit without needing tweeking or very little as some fitters would no doubt go out of their way to try and promote tweaking as a solution to a poor fit when all he would need to do is go to another shop and find a boot that needs nothing or very little tweaking.
Originally posted by: jedski
Why do you call them just "expert" boots when you talk them up to everyone no matter what their ability? Never heard of a such thing as an "experts only" boot/ski till you chirped up. Theres beginner, intermidiate and advanced/expert (they are always one of the same). Although, this don't really mean didly squat as every brand is different and a persons physical attributes have a huge affect on gear choice, not some words. Then don't forget the technologies that have exploded gears versitility to shread anything...
I was meaning advanced/expert if you want to be semantical and I agree they are the same.
*edited 06 Oct 2011 10:41
Just to throw it out there cassina, I highly, highly doubt your boots are proper 'race' (i.e. plug) boots simply because if they were then you would have definitely done a lot more fitting.
Just because something says 'Race' on it doesn't make it so. There's a lot of Fischer 'Race' and Atomic 'Race' and Rossignol 'World Cup' skis tootling around the mountains complete with 10 DIN plastic bindings and flex patterns that make Hellbents look stiff.
A proper race boot is a plug boot that you grind out the fit and then plane the sole for canting.
Last of all, if you found they gave you too much forward lean then perhaps you need to get out of the back seat and ski properly, and of course they're "versatile" for you - you only ever do 1 kind of skiing. That's like saying a Formula 1 car is versatile because it can turn both left AND right.
Originally posted by: rozboon
*edited 06 Oct 2011 10:41
Just to throw it out there cassina, I highly, highly doubt your boots are proper 'race' (i.e. plug) boots simply because if they were then you would have definitely done a lot more fitting.
Just because something says 'Race' on it doesn't make it so. There's a lot of Fischer 'Race' and Atomic 'Race' and Rossignol 'World Cup' skis tootling around the mountains complete with 10 DIN plastic bindings and flex patterns that make Hellbents look stiff.
A proper race boot is a plug boot that you grind out the fit and then plane the sole for canting.
Last of all, if you found they gave you too much forward lean then perhaps you need to get out of the back seat and ski properly, and of course they're "versatile" for you - you only ever do 1 kind of skiing. That's like saying a Formula 1 car is versatile because it can turn both left AND right.
Yes I was aware that there was 2 catagouries of Race Boots and Skis with the top name being Race Stock in skis. An international ski racer I spoke to said some racers even get the factory to mould boots for them. I do both off piste and on piste skiing so I would hardly call that only 1 kind of skiing but if thats what you think enjoy your dreaming. Where I live they sell race skis going up to 12 but race stock can start at between 10 and 15. I bet jed would love those.
If I was to try Race Stock boots maybe I would hate them as much as others on the MB but in their comments they said nothing about Race Stock as oppposed to non race stock. I dont have the money to buy a pair and find out and anyway I find my non race stock boots offering good enough all mountain control without being extremely too cold which I would imagine race stock boots would be.
Originally posted by: rozboon
*edited 06 Oct 2011 10:41
Just to throw it out there cassina, I highly, highly doubt your boots are proper 'race' (i.e. plug) boots simply because if they were then you would have definitely done a lot more fitting.
Just because something says 'Race' on it doesn't make it so. There's a lot of Fischer 'Race' and Atomic 'Race' and Rossignol 'World Cup' skis tootling around the mountains complete with 10 DIN plastic bindings and flex patterns that make Hellbents look stiff.
A proper race boot is a plug boot that you grind out the fit and then plane the sole for canting.
Last of all, if you found they gave you too much forward lean then perhaps you need to get out of the back seat and ski properly, and of course they're "versatile" for you - you only ever do 1 kind of skiing. That's like saying a Formula 1 car is versatile because it can turn both left AND right.
As for your forward lean comment you are commenting on what you and a sales guy like. To say that skiing without a forward lean spoiler equates to poor skiing is absolute crap and another poster has already given a similar response to mine on that. For what its worth I only found the spoiler fitted was uncomfortable standing in the lift line leaning forward. Actually skiing it made no difference.
Originally posted by: cassina
As for your forward lean comment you are commenting on what you and a sales guy like. To say that skiing without a forward lean spoiler equates to poor skiing is absolute crap and another poster has already given a similar response to mine on that. For what its worth I only found the spoiler fitted was uncomfortable standing in the lift line leaning forward. Actually skiing it made no difference.
Perhaps you should stick to telling the whole story in future? Saying 'removing the rear spoiler made my boots more comfortable' without the caveat of 'only when standing in the lift line' is very misleading, telling part-truths to support your argument is best left to politicians.
And as for your 'variety' of skiing? Carved turns on-piste and carved turns off-piste is the same thing, if you're a halfway competent skier it shouldn't matter whether a groomer went down there before you.
Variety would be, say, carved turns, some park, some big mountain, and some all-mountain freeride.
Carved turns through the terrain park doesn't count.
And for your previous post, what you've basically just said is that all your 'Race' equipment is in fact only branded as such, and is not necessarily suitable for race usage, nor even race-level skiers. My teenage cousin would laugh if you suggested he race on a pair of skis that only went to 12 DIN. That's not a race ski, that's a weekend warrior's groomer basher. A race sticker doesn't make it a race ski, or a race boot for that matter, so you can stop bs'ing about all your 'race' equipment. It's a plain old pair of slightly stiff boots. Whoop dee doo, basil.
What Cass doesn't realise is that proper race stock doesn't just come out of the shop. Look at most kids ski, they all say race. But would probably suit cass better!
Next time you go skiing, try set your dins to 13 like mine will be for tomorrow. Even a 5 year old will figure that one aint possible. So get over the plastic bindings for all mumbo jambo.
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
snowboard boots rock!
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www.BWMsnow.co.nz - Online and instore
Originally posted by: rozboonOriginally posted by: cassina
As for your forward lean comment you are commenting on what you and a sales guy like. To say that skiing without a forward lean spoiler equates to poor skiing is absolute crap and another poster has already given a similar response to mine on that. For what its worth I only found the spoiler fitted was uncomfortable standing in the lift line leaning forward. Actually skiing it made no difference.
Perhaps you should stick to telling the whole story in future? Saying 'removing the rear spoiler made my boots more comfortable' without the caveat of 'only when standing in the lift line' is very misleading, telling part-truths to support your argument is best left to politicians.
And as for your 'variety' of skiing? Carved turns on-piste and carved turns off-piste is the same thing, if you're a halfway competent skier it shouldn't matter whether a groomer went down there before you.
Variety would be, say, carved turns, some park, some big mountain, and some all-mountain freeride.
Carved turns through the terrain park doesn't count.
And for your previous post, what you've basically just said is that all your 'Race' equipment is in fact only branded as such, and is not necessarily suitable for race usage, nor even race-level skiers. My teenage cousin would laugh if you suggested he race on a pair of skis that only went to 12 DIN. That's not a race ski, that's a weekend warrior's groomer basher. A race sticker doesn't make it a race ski, or a race boot for that matter, so you can stop bs'ing about all your 'race' equipment. It's a plain old pair of slightly stiff boots. Whoop dee doo, basil.
So I left the word "Stock" off the end of the word "Race" which in your book means not race. You are getting wound up with the wrong person to be bleating to me about "Incorrect Labeling" Why not complain to the manufacturers that they are selling skis and boots under false pretenses by labeling anything not race stock "race"
Sorry for "misleading" you about my reason for removing the spoiler but considering it is something that only "bad" skiers do in your book why would you get so wound up about that too. Sorry I am not a terrain park person its a bit scary for me but I would not consider the boots I have as making it scary.
Originally posted by: jedski
What Cass doesn't realise is that proper race stock doesn't just come out of the shop. Look at most kids ski, they all say race.
Next time you go skiing, try set your dins to 13 like mine will be for tomorrow. Even a 5 year old will figure that one aint possible. So get over the plastic bindings for all mumbo jambo.
About your 13 DIN setting all I can say is I must be a lot lighter than you to be able
to not have pre releases falls at 8 or 9 DIN. Unless you are much heavier than me
you may regret that setting one day and there is a saying that there is those who have stacked and those who have yet to stack. Even BP admitted to stacking on here some years back.
Originally posted by: rozboon
A race sticker doesn't make it a race ski, or a race boot for that matter, so you can stop bs'ing about all your 'race' equipment. It's a plain old pair of slightly stiff boots. Whoop dee doo, basil.
No way! Are you trying to tell me that those Atomic Beta Race boots and skis that I used like 10 years ago when I weighed like 55kg and I could flex them that were not actually race boots and skis? I thought I was f@rking awesome back then with all that race gear!
What about my 6 speed poles? Are they not actually gearshifts? Or my Gotamas? They're not the embodiment of the founder of Buddhism?
Does this extend outside of skiing? Like the Range Rover Sport isn't actually a sports car?
Hmmm, I may have to change my entire way of thinking. You've ruined my entire perception of labelling by marketers. Can we no longer trust these people?
*edited 06 Oct 2011 22:07
^^NOPE! About 75 kegs or less. My ski tech thought I was crazy when I accidentely left my DINs on some big planks on 10 after some park and he saw what I had been thrashing that day. Advice was, "crank em as you must of been landing those cliffs damn straight for them boards not to pop off". Heck, my ski ripped off buttering a 1 over a slush bump yesterday on 12 and the forward pressure is set bang on.
Were not wound up, just laughing our asses off at a skiing legend!
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"If in doubt, straighten 'em out"
*edited 06 Oct 2011 22:17
*edited 06 Oct 2011 22:15
Originally posted by: cassina
About your 13 DIN setting all I can say is I must be a lot lighter than you to be able
to not have pre releases falls at 8 or 9 DIN. Unless you are much heavier than me
you may regret that setting one day and there is a saying that there is those who have stacked and those who have yet to stack. Even BP admitted to stacking on here some years back.
You obviously have absolutely no idea how hard jedski rides...
Hell, even me being a short bugger and under 70kg, I get pre-releases happening waaay too often at anything below 9, and that's staying on the ground carving on piste.
EDIT: At approx 100kg as you have posted previously, you must be only skiing perfectly flat groomers at walking pace to not have enough pressure to pre-release every now and again at 8-9 DIN...
I wondered where cass had been embarassing himself lately, this thread is pure gold. cass at his finest, offering incorrect and just plain poor advice to anybody who will listen
Originally posted by: cassina
[quote
and there is a saying that there is those who have stacked and those who have yet to stack. Even BP admitted to stacking on here some years back.
you do realise cass, that falling isnt a big deal for normal people? you are the only person who has this extreme phobia it seems, perhaps you can get counselling? seriously dude, how does skiing controlled turns at 30km/h on mild pitch groomers give you any sort of thrill of enjoyment? I think most of us would have more fun buttering in the learners area, but then we arent extreme iceskating experts i guess
Originally posted by: cassinaOriginally posted by: rozboonSorry I am not a terrain park person its a bit scary for me
one has to wonder how you ever got into skiing?
*edited 29 Nov 2011 00:40
*edited 25 Nov 2011 02:32
Hi Guys!
I know this reply is kinda late but I can't help not to give mu suggestion.
How about considering a ski boot with adjustable width?
I've found this short video at youtube: http://www.youtube.com/mountainyahoos/#p/u/5/vd4nU5epUNg [youtube.com]
Its adjustable width feature is interesting, what do you think?